How to Drive Profits with Corporate Social Responsibility

Originally published on www.inc.com on July 24, 2018.

Companies that fully integrate social responsibility into their business operations are well placed for healthy financial returns on their investments, a new study shows.

Research and consulting firm IO Sustainability has been studying the business case for sustainability, or CSR (corporate social responsibility), and has been able to map specific advantages obtained by companies that are serious about it. The firm's latest deep dive looked at companies with CSR programs being managed separately from the rest of the company's operations, and compared them with companies fully integrating CSR into their operations. The study found that integration brings enormous advantages.

The winning strategy looks like this: a company identifies areas of social impact that fit with its core strategy, products or services, and operations. It makes a commitment, dedicating resources to these social impact projects that are material to the company. It manages and measures social impact performance with clear key performance indicators. And it connects and engages with stakeholders for full effect.

According to the research, companies sticking to the IO Sustainability roadmap of integrating social impact into their business were able to:

• enhance sales by as much as 20%
• increase productivity by 13%
• reduce employee turnover by half
• protect against litigation risk at a value equivalent to the cost of insurance worth up to 4% of the company's value
• increase the company's share price by up to 6%
• create a "reputation dividend' worth up to 11% of market capitalization
• reduce financial risk, the cost of equity, and the cost of borrowing.
The study showed that companies not integrating their CSR programs into the business could still earn a reputation advantage, but not much else. A CSR program on the sidelines that does not involve employees, for example, would not affect employee turnover rates.
Sales
Companies fully integrating CSR were able to increase sales and prices. Other research confirms this idea, particularly as millennials seek ways to make their purchasing reflect their values. Customers pay attention to the way brands react to social and political issues and are ready to boycott when a company's values appear to conflict with their own, or instead to line up to buy to applaud a company's activism. Never before has it been so important for companies to make their values clear and take stands. In a polarized world, taking a middle ground doesn't work well anymore. According to IO Sustainability's research, customers of companies integrating CSR fall increasingly into two categories: "aspirationals," who think of a brand as part of the cultural fabric they identify with (a company today can hope to attract 39% of customers into this category), and "advocates," who proactively promote a brand and support its values (a successful company can count on up to 20% of its customers as advocates, helping the brand on social media and with peer referrals).
Understanding this truth, Aspiration Bank, an online bank targeting socially conscious savers, has a new app ranking brands on social and environmental performance. When an account holder of the bank uses her debit card to purchase an Apple product, for example, she gets an alert on the app that Apple has a "People" score of 86 and a "Planet" score of 92 (reflecting the company's commitment to renewable energy). She might be interested to know how a local business near her scores, and send its name into the app for a full review and ranking.
Reputation
A company can cultivate a reputation for great products, for being innovative, for offering a great place to work, for good governance, for good corporate citizenship, and for showing leadership on important issues. The IO research shows estimated percentage increases to things like market capitalization that a good reputation can bring. In fact, over the last half century, the stock market value of companies has shifted from being mostly equal to the value of its brick and mortar assets and inventories, to being based on mostly intangible assets such as patents or reputation. Well-known brands today are worth vastly more than the sum of the value of the footwear or cloud servers or soft drinks they peddle.
In order to fully integrate sustainability into a company's purpose, culture, and operations, it's important to fully engage with stakeholders. The general idea is to shift the focus of corporate strategy from short-term results and quick profitability for investors, to longer-term thinking and value creation for all stakeholders, including for example employees, the community, and the planet. The longer-term approach works better for longer-term investors, too, such as individuals saving for retirement.
More and more prominent voices are calling for a shift to a longer-term horizon in management, and to value creation for all stakeholders. JP Morgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon teamed up with Warren Buffett recently to call for an end to quarterly earnings forecasting, in order to push the focus of corporate managers towards the longer term, joining Blackrock's Larry Fink who has repeatedly called for long-term thinking and attention to environmental, social and governance factors in his annual letter to CEOs.
Integration of sustainability into operations is a winning strategy that will set the stage for a much-needed cultural shift for corporate America.

Leaders of the Future Will Need These 5 Skills

Originally published on www.inc.com on June 7, 2018.

Companies today are grappling with the complexities posed by massive acceleration in technology, globalization and planetary changes, as Thomas Friedman describes in his book "Thank You for Being Late." Friedman says we will need to entirely redesign our approach and our structures, with a commitment to the common good.

I believe corporate sustainability provides a roadmap for how to navigate those complexities. "Sustainability," as we now define it, emerged out of environmental compliance and corporate social responsibility, and is rapidly evolving as a new culture for organizations. Sustainability managers implement cross-functional strategies designed to lower risks and increase the long-term viability of their companies, looking to create value for all types of stakeholders. This is a much more holistic approach than large multinationals had been used to. It spans the economic sphere (the ability of a company to be profitable over time, not only in the short term), as well as the environmental (including mitigating risks associated with resource availability), the social (from human rights in the supply chain to employee empowerment and productivity), and the governance spheres (values-based rules for the corporation). It means leaders can no longer think in terms of separate silos. It means less competition and more collaboration. It means creativity and receptivity.

Here are five skills leaders will need in an accelerated, interconnected, innovative and sustainable world:

1. Big-picture vision. Leaders will need the ability to seek value for all stakeholders at the same time. A company's ecosystem of stakeholders includes its shareholders, but also its employees, customers, suppliers, communities, and natural capital. Leaders need to be able to envision the ripple effects of any 
2. action on all these stakeholders, and act strategically and proactively to engage them as partners in a common journey.
3. Deep listening. Engaging with stakeholders includes the ability to listen to them on a deep level, which means opening oneself, letting go of preconceived ideas and foregone conclusions, connecting to others, and honoring all voices and contributions. Great innovations can come from an assembly line worker, a quiet team member, or even a granddaughter. A successful leader of the future will need to be receptive.
4. Authenticity. Leaders will need to be able to follow their intuition with clarity and confidence. But being in touch with one's intuition requires a high level of authenticity, removing personal barriers such as prejudice or triggers stemming from trauma. Each of us has a powerful authentic self, if only we could get to the core of it, and when we do, our intuition becomes as clear as daylight.
5. Courage. Clear intuition will be necessary to see the path forward on a rollercoaster ride of disruptive technologies, climate change, changing demographics and resource availability. Decisions to radically change course will sometimes need to be made. When big-picture vision gives us insight into imbalances in a system that will eventually become unsustainable, we will need to courageously call for a new strategy.
6. Humility. The complex world we live in is a world with multiple voices. A large majority of the population has access to the Internet and can engage, create, and broadcast opinions. Leaders need to know that everyone has gifts to offer, and honor the responsibility of each to bring those gifts. The problems society faces are enormous: poverty, human trafficking, urban crowding, food security, deforestation, and so many others - and solutions require participation and responsible behavior. A successful leader will need to be a project manager, a choreographer, a facilitator. The task at hand requires greatness, that of a servant of the greater good.
Some of these skills may not typically be seen as male skills, but are qualities we may associate with mothers and grandmothers. Yet every human, whether man, woman, or some other gender, possesses talents associated with the masculine and talents associated with the feminine. Regardless of gender, the leaders of the future can dig within themselves to find qualities such as these five to help propel us into a more sustainable, inclusive and prosperous future. It's a new world, and about time we adapt.

10 Reasons to Celebrate on Earth Day

Originally published on www.inc.com on April 22, 2018.

Earth Day began in 1970, at a time when the US was ushering in the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act and there was broad consensus on the need for environmental action. Nearly 50 years later, problems like rising global temperatures, melting Arctic sea ice, and the demographics putting pressure on food production and resources like forests, can make you want to scream or bury your head in the sand. But there is hope! People are mobilizing and technological innovation promises a host of solutions.

Here are 10 things to celebrate this Earth Day:

1. Solar energy has become the fastest growing and cheapest source of electricity worldwide. It is powering the rural homes of the poorest in Bangladesh, and whole countries like Portugal, which produced an amount of renewable energy equivalent to 103.6 per cent of the country's total mainland electric energy demand in the month of March. 

2. Analysts are betting on big improvements in battery storage technology. Although it isn't clear when the tipping point will come, battery storage could ensure a continuous supply of energy through the grid even when sources fluctuate, as in the case of solar power. Advances in battery storage would also accelerate the move to electric vehicles, with huge repercussions for our transportation systems.

3. Cities, including many in the US, are taking the lead on reaching the targets outlined in the Paris climate agreement. The C40 Cities Climate Leadership Group, bringing together more than 90 cities representing over 650 million people and a quarter of the global economy, has several initiatives underway. One group of 13 leading mayors recently pledged to "transition to Fossil-Fuel-Free Streets by: 

1) procuring, with our partners, only zero-emission buses from 2025; and

2) ensuring a major area of our city is zero emission by 2030."

4. China is stepping up with measures for better stewardship of the planet. Although its strong economic growth means overall emissions are still increasing, China has reached its 2020 "carbon intensity" targets ahead of time by implementing serious environmental policies and technological innovation.

5. "Circular economy" concepts are taking hold. Instead of continuing to mine resources, fashion them into products, use the products and then throw them away (the "take-make-waste" model), individuals, companies and policy makers are increasingly looking to a less wasteful "make-use-return" model of doing business. Apple has unveiled a disassembly robot named Daisy that can take apart up to 200 old iPhones per hour, recovering valuable materials for reuse. Disassembling 100,000 devices, Daisy can recover a host of materials, including 11 kilograms of rare earths, 770 kilograms of cobalt, and 1900 kilograms of aluminum.

6. More companies are making commitments to stop deforestation, and broad coalitions of stakeholders are tackling the problem. Satellite technology can help identify deforestation hotspots and track solutions. Here's just one example of corporate action : Taylor Guitars, a leading manufacturer of acoustic guitars, has projects in Cameroon and Hawaii to replant ebony trees and acacia koa trees. Guitar fingerboards and bridges are made from ebony wood, and koa wood is used for guitar backs, sides and tops, and these types of trees are being depleted. The company has launched long-term reforestation projects that won't pay off for decades, but could be crucial to the music of future generations. Founder Bob Taylor was quoted in his company's magazine as saying "Today Taylor Guitars buys mahogany from Fiji that some long-dead British guy planted 80 years ago. I want to be a long-dead American guy who planted trees that someone will make guitars from in the future."

7. Water conservation efforts are producing results. According to the US Geological Survey, US household water consumption is declining to mid-1990s levels. Efforts go beyond turning off the water while brushing teeth, and include regulatory changes and innovations in plumbing and infrastructure. 

8. Packaging materials are improving. Dell and Ikea use "mushroom packaging" grown from agricultural waste products. Biodegradable and compostable bags are beginning to be introduced as substitutes for plastic bags. Organic and reusable food packaging solutions are appearing, and this year a Dutch supermarket introduced a plastic-free aisle.

9. More people, companies and organizations are calling for a carbon price or a carbon tax to introduce greater environmental accountability. The reasoning goes: why should limited natural resources be used for free, and why should polluting shared air and water not come with a price tag? Carbon trading markets exist, as well as offsets that are easy to purchase (for example, some airlines ask if you'd like to buy carbon offsets together with your ticket).

10. Individuals are stepping up with a multitude of small actions and solutions, starting with turning off the lights. Everyone must play their part. Richard Branson believes in a democratic process to solve global warming challenges, not just one or a few superhero solutions. For inspiration, check out Drawdown, the book, project and website launched by Paul Hawken. Hawken's researchers collected data, information and practical stories, creating what is something of an encyclopedia of solutions for climate change. And it is a work in progress, designed to be built on, with new solutions introduced as they are discovered.

Earth Day is also an opportunity to appreciate the beautiful, generous planet we all share, and to revel in its resilience and ours. Get outside this Earth Day, breathe the air, feel your feet on the ground, and be grateful for life, nature and community. When we feel part of the web of life, we can find the capacity to nurture it.

6 Areas of Disruption for a More Sustainable Future

Originally published on www.inc.com on March 1, 2018.

These are times when change looks more like a rollercoaster than a steady line on a grid. In its 2018 report on the future of sustainability, the London based non-profit Forum for the Future, citing hurricanes and forest fires, notes how unpredictable life has become. But, says the report, "Fortunately, nonlinear change can lead to positive outcomes, too." The report highlights seven dynamic areas that "present rich opportunities to develop radically more sustainable behaviour and practice, through 2018 and towards the 2020s," as well as four areas to watch. I have summarized six out of these 11.

1. Mobility
Innovations for connected, autonomous, shared and electric vehicles will all bring big changes in road safety, urban planning, community interaction and the exchange of goods. Shared cars reduce traffic and improve parking, while infrastructure, regulation and grid and battery innovations are making electric vehicle production take off. Drivers will lose jobs, while technology skills will be in demand. In terms of sustainability, we should see much safer and cleaner mobility. Predominance of electric vehicles may come sooner than we thought: gas stations and electricity grids are enabling charging stations, cost-effective electric trucks are being introduced, and automakers are announcing plans to end production of diesel engines and invest heavily in electric cars.

2. Agriculture
Regenerative agriculture, combined with appropriate use of automation, can have dramatic ef fects on the quantity and nutritional quality of our food, as well as on CO2 emissions. Regenerative techniques include carbon sequestration in the soil, cultivating different crops together, keeping plant cover on soil and using insects instead of chemical pesticides. The report says, "The internet of things, remote sensing, artificial intelligence and a revolution in robotics are coming together to make low-input, data-driven automated agriculture at scale a real possibility." Forum for the Future also predicts a shift from meat eating to plant-based diets. This would disrupt agriculture and livestock, and dramatically improve the environmental impacts of our diets.

3. Retail
Clearly old ways of shopping are being disrupted, with online shopping going mainstream, a concentration of platforms (such as Amazon and Alibaba), innovation in delivery (such as the use of drones, or refrigerators that stock themselves), and greater efficiency through quick price comparison, reviews, and targeted marketing. Forum for the Future asks, "Can this be harnessed for sustainability?" Millennials are driving the sharing economy and are in many cases more interested in access than ownership. Rather than wanting to own a car, they'll access one when they need it, and they are happy to rent and share clothing, experiences, and accommodations. In her 2014 Ted Talk on collaborative consumption, Rachel Botsman said, "We are moving from passive consumers to creators, to highly enabled collaborators," and "from a culture of 'me' to a culture of 'we'."

4. New livelihoods
The Forum for the Future report expresses major concern for livelihoods in developing countries, as automation in manufacturing and agriculture replaces jobs. As in the developed world, people in developing nations will need to train in new skills for new livelihoods. Demographics won't help; the report cites a UN prediction that the global population will reach 11.2 billion in 2100, with more than half the world's children living in Africa. The report highlights two examples of solutions: collaborative work platforms that assign tasks to the best workers anywhere in the world, and unconditional basic income (UBI). Early results of pilot UBI projects in India and Kenya are showing increased entrepreneurship.

5. Blockchain
Blockchain technology holds promise for more transparent tracking and decentralized innovation. The report gives examples in supply chain management, in accelerating renewable energy integration into the grid, in improving meal delivery to schoolchildren, and in a payment system for refugees. If blockchain leads to a future of self-organizing networks, for instance of small producers all contributing energy to a local grid, it could disrupt our centralized systems of governance.

6. Going local
Globalization is becoming less popular, with localism, protectionism and regional political identity on the rise. On a less divisive and more positive note, new trends include community energy cooperatives, local food systems, local currencies, locally-made beer, local festivals and community business. Forum for the Future points out that cities are tackling climate change with local solutions, networked together in groups such as C40 Cities and 100 Resilient Cities. In some cases the solutions are system-wide. "Boston's climate change resilience plan focuses on tackling social inequality, acknowledging that [inequality] augments the environmental effects of climate change," the report says.

All of these areas are ripe with entrepreneurial opportunities and room for technological innovation. Clearly nonlinear times call for responsible application of technology, and Forum for the Future is optimistic about the direction humanity can take. We need to step up to this level of responsibility now.

A Thanksgiving Reflection on the Current Upheaval

Originally published on www.inc.com on November 23, 2017.

These are momentous times. Who would have guessed that women speaking out on sexual harassment would trigger such a sweeping denouncement of the abuse of power? That the Norwegian central bank would call for Norway's sovereign wealth funds to go fossil fuel-free? That our government would be rocked by so much turbulence? Sit tight.

Our society is going through a massive transition in three particular areas: environmental, social, and governance (ESG). Interestingly, these are the same three areas companies are being asked by investors to report on and make improvements in. For companies, ESG started with compliance and reporting, and is now becoming business opportunity and strategy. On the environmental front, big companies must cut carbon emissions and avoid deforestation, and we have exciting innovations popping up, led by the likes of Tesla. On the social front, companies are looking to uphold human rights in their supply chains, combating such horrors as human trafficking and child labor. Diversity and inclusion are a big part of modern human resources practices. And investors evaluate companies on their governance.

ESG is the way forward for big business, given that society expects business, as much as government, to solve global problems like poverty, disease, and climate change. Indeed, businesses are embracing the UN Sustainable Development Goals en masse, and offering up their own targets for delivery on human rights and environmental issues.

This Thanksgiving, I am grateful for the forward momentum. One day we will look back and say: "that was the Great Transition. We handled it well (or not)." Sure, there will be backlash. The pendulum will swing one way, then back the other way. Civil rights and equality will make life better for all.

There is much work to be done, by companies, investors, civil society, everyone.

Thanksgiving is a time to be grateful, to look at where we are headed, to affirm our identity. Can we commit to creating a better world for our children?

The Business of the Future is Regenerative

Originally published on www.inc.com on October 26, 2017.

It is common knowledge by now that executives and employees alike are driven not by carrots and sticks, but by a sense of purpose.  People want their work to be meaningful to someone, to change people's lives. We feel much better about getting up in the morning and going to work if our company is a vehicle to make that change.

In her latest book, "The Regenerative Business," Carol Sanford describes how companies can develop the capacity and imagination of purposeful employees. In order to become fertile for the kind of disruptive innovation that will make it wildly successful, a business must reposition itself as a kind of living human development lab, using creativity and teamwork to regenerate the systems within which it operates. "A business that adopts a systems regeneration approach moves the boundary of what it is taking into account," writes Sanford. "It begins to take responsibility not only for its own internal systems (such as accounting or production...) and the systems in which it is immediately embedded (such as markets or distribution networks), but also for the larger social and natural systems that we depend on collectively. By extending its purview in this way, a business is able to become much more strategically powerful within its markets and its industry, and in society at large."

Sanford walks her readers through a phased process, explaining that there is no "recipe" to be copied and pasted onto a business strategy. She maintains that environmental and social programs tend  to be add-ons rather than the deep repositioning of a company through a redesign of its working relationships and organizational structure.

The process begins with introducing a "conscious shock," meaning radically questioning the habits of the business. A core team is assembled and begins to grapple with questions about the company's roots and essence and what these suggest about its unique offerings, as well as its role in transforming society and the planet.

The company also reimagines its hierarchical roles, giving everyone a voice and new ways of working together.  "In company after company that I have worked with," writes Sanford, "the effect of awakening creative intelligence in the workforce is like an earthquake." This shifts the orientation of workers from a machine-like view of themselves as cogs delivering a specific skill within a greater whole, to dynamic strategic thinkers. Phase two in a nested series of initiatives (not necessarily entirely chronological) is to evolve a courageous culture; phase three is to evolve people and thinking processes; phase four is to evolve business work systems; and phase five is to evolve work structures. The development of enabled, thinking, and accountable workers, Sanford points out, brings the added benefit of developing intelligent and engaged members of a functioning democracy.

Despite the evolution in business practices over decades, Sanford points out that we are still entrenched  in old ways of thinking. The recently introduced "behavioral paradigm," based on behavioral psychology, humanizes the worker by examining conditioning in people's behavior, but it is still a paradigm where an outside authority is dictating direction. Lately, we have a "human potential paradigm," where organizations do try to train and grow their people. But even this falls short, because the entire organization needs to change in parallel. "Businesses, if they truly want to unleash human potential, have to commit themselves to developing it," writes Sanford, "not just utilizing it."

When I met Sanford, I was struck in particular by her approach to envisioning the future. Rather than deciding what society, or a business, should look like in advance, for her it is all about the journey. We are constantly evolving, and as humans we aren't afraid of change as long as we are in the driver's seat, making the evolution happen. We are, indeed, designed as creatures of change.

Project Drawdown Offers a To-Do List for Climate Change Mitigation

Originally published on www.inc.com on August 3, 2017.

Ten years ago Sir Richard Branson launched an exciting challenge. He offered $25 million to anyone who could come up with a sustainable, scalable way to remove greenhouse gases from the air, giving us a solution to human-caused global warming. He confesses now that he thought such a disruptive innovation would materialize, and that powerful people like himself would implement a top-down solution in one fell swoop.

No such scenario materialized, not even with the magic wand of the massive reward.
But all is not lost. Branson now believes in a sort of democratization of the problem, and its solutions. Everyone can participate in saving humanity; it won't be a task for just a few superheroes.

That was the same spirit that inspired Paul Hawken and a network of researchers to come up with "Drawdown"​:​ a book, a website, and an interactive project without an expiration date.

Drawdown focuses on small, practical steps, not apocalyptic scenarios and impossible solutions. Hawken's researchers collected data, information and practical knowledge, creating what is something of an encyclopedia of solutions for climate change. The book begins with an overview of the renewable energy technologies we have now, and then moves on to discuss food, women and girls, buildings and cities, land use, transport, and materials. The last section of the book "Coming Attractions," looks at solutions that we are close to getting a handle on that are likely to be useful ones for the near future. Not pipe dreams, in other words.

Drawdown makes sure to empower ordinary human beings with actions each of us can contribute, even if we aren't specialized in offshore wind farms or solar storage technology.

Being able to roll up our own sleeves and help out certainly creates a narrative of optimism, where climate change isn't such a big problem that we just want to run and hide from it, burying our heads in the sand (as the sea level rises).

As I meander through the pages of Drawdown - which is nicely illustrated and makes a great coffee table book and conversation piece - I am struck by how interconnected everything is. As Branson discovered, we can't just build a great big contraption (or app) to remove carbon from the atmosphere. We are living in an enormous fabric of life, where anti-poverty measures may create new pressures caused by excess consumption; where methane emissions increase if we eat more beef or throw food waste in a landfill; where drought leads to forest fires and more carbon; where marginalizing women makes communities less resilient.

We need to be smart and think broadly.

Professor Andrew Hoffman of the University of Michigan says we are moving into a "fourth wave" in terms of the evolution of the environmental sustainability movement. The first wave, in the 1970s, began with regulatory compliance, following the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts. The second wave happened when companies began seeing business opportunities in being environmentally conscious. The third wave, of structured corporate sustainability, occurred in this century as companies aligned sustainability practices and reporting and introduced sustainability officers. All these have been waves, with some positive uptake and some backlash.

Today we find ourselves in Hoffman's fourth wave, where we have to think in terms of overall systems and find integrated solutions that don't create unwanted repercussions. We have to think globally and innovate. We need to think in new ways, such as bringing in economies that are circular instead of linear. We need to think about community, about the common interests of many individuals cohabiting a single planet.

As usual there is plenty of backlash, with environmental deregulation and attempts to save jobs in energy sectors that may be superseded, to protect old habits and infrastructures from change.

But there is also an increase in awareness and participation. We are all learning about climate change, we are beginning to notice as some connect the dots and begin to explain complicated science in plain language, we know there are problems and solutions.

Drawdown will make a great contribution to this process, hopefully, by making it easier to step up and be part of the solution.

So what can we do, all by ourselves? What can our small contribution be?

Here are 5 actions to get started:

1. Consider installing solar panels. Small-scale solar panels generate electricity more cheaply than buying from the grid in certain parts of the United States. Drawdown estimates that over the next three decades, solar energy could save some $3.4 trillion beyond dramatically reducing GHG emissions.

2. Change your lightbulbs to LED. LEDs use 90% less energy than incandescent bulbs, and half as much as compact fluorescent. Moreover, LEDs can last up to 27 years when used 5 hours a day, which entails savings of 10 to 30%.

3. Reduce food waste. A third of the products grown to feed people is never eaten. That specific amount of wasted food represents 8% of total GHG emissions. Drawdown ranks food waste reduction as the third-most impactful way of reducing GHG emissions.

4. Try to transition to a plant-rich diet. Comprehensive studies that account for both direct and indirect emissions estimate that over 50% of global GHG emissions come from raising livestock. A global shift towards diets that are heavily based on plants is the fourth-most effective manner of reducing GHG emissions, according to Drawdown.

5. Properly dispose of air conditioners and refrigerators. Surprisingly, this is the area in which the greatest impact can be made in reducing GHG emissions. Refrigerants (i.e. the chemicals used in refrigeration) have a capacity to warm the atmosphere that is 1,000 to 9,000 time greater than carbon dioxide. Although the process to remove and store refrigerants can be costly, it is the most critical area of action identified in Drawdown.

Finally, a blueprint for practical steps we can actually take.